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Post by jjrev609 on Apr 5, 2008 14:53:07 GMT -5
ok you win.....
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Cmdr. Maegil
b47713-w0rN g4n7z3r
Grandpa Maegil
Be civil - or else!...
Posts: 351
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Post by Cmdr. Maegil on Apr 5, 2008 15:49:56 GMT -5
I'll put a few middle ground options, and let's see if we can make us a Frankie out of this mess... How do you align with the following options? Elaborate.
RULES We must make sure nobody steps out of bounds | |> to prevent chaos sacrifice some freedom | |>> just a few guidelines, and common sense | Keep to comedy Gantz
CHARGE POSTS FOR SPECIAL CHARACTERS Yes | |> One free pet, and pay for the rest | |> Mods don't pay | |>> No charges, but minimum posts required | No
ANIMAL GANTZERS No animals | |> Mod only | |>> Allow for proven RPers | Allow for all
ALIEN GANTZERS No | |>> Mod only | |> Allow for proven RPers | Allow for all
EDIT: the ">>" ones are my preferred compromise choices.
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Post by Dane on Apr 5, 2008 16:22:24 GMT -5
Since when? Kurono's brother ain't an alien. The Vampires are just humans with nano-machines in their bodies. Though, now thinking of it, the nano-machines may be of an alien origin, but this remains to be seen.
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Post by jjrev609 on Apr 5, 2008 18:13:04 GMT -5
There's going to be a dinosaur gantzer in the sequal "Gantz Final Wars" but that won't be around for long time. O yea Def no dinosaur, it's against the rules if you haven't seen.
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Post by The Merc on Apr 5, 2008 18:34:30 GMT -5
Since when? Kurono's brother ain't an alien. The Vampires are just humans with nano-machines in their bodies. Though, now thinking of it, the nano-machines may be of an alien origin, but this remains to be seen. Dane, I'd like to say at this point that you sir, are an idiot. Every enemy group in Gantz, regardless of what their origin might be, is considered alien. Heck, the actual definition of alien doesn't mean little green men from outta space. It actually means something foreign in a local environment. Eg, Asian people in America are aliens (somewhat), and vice versa.
Vampires, their nanites seem to alter their composition greatly, thus creating the aversion to UV lighting, and blood thirst. So, once you're infected, you become an alien. Cause you're no longer home grown human.
I rest my case against you Dane. However, if you decide to try disprove me, I will take my briefcase and whack you with it.
>.> I'm grumpy cause DST made me out of sync with what bloody time it is.
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Post by KßзŁŁ on Apr 5, 2008 19:09:02 GMT -5
At this point I'll say that there will likely be charges (I'm thinking about dropping costs to 200 for animals and 750 for vamps/aliens), and there will likely not be a "free pet" option for mods. As for vampire allowances, I'd really rather only RPers use them; not mods, but if a mod really wants to, they should be allowed to pay the price for their NPC as well. Obviously a vampire will have a few advantages, such as enhanced speed, but not having a suit really hurts them, IMO. As for things like "hand holstering" (allowing vampires to store one item in each hand), that sort of stuff will likely fall under mod discretion. The way I see it, animals should be used as a plot device for mods, and I personally wouldn't really want to RP one, but I would like to try a vampire out in RP. When I start my project, I will probably bring in animals as NPCs, but I'm not likely to be bringing in any vampire/alien npcs. I wouldn't mind having vampire RPers in my project, but not until it's 3 or 4 missions in, probably. I will of course allow people to RP animals if they want, but the drawbacks of not being able to use gantz weaponry and not being able to put your own suit on are pretty serious, I think.
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Post by Dane on Apr 5, 2008 20:04:12 GMT -5
So, in your defintion, Balance, the SDF guys from the Osaka mission are aliens? Technically, they're enemies in Gantz as they tried to kill Katou and Nerdo.
And you say that an alien is a being that is foreign in their environment. Akira Kurono lived in Japan before and after he became a Vampire. How does that make him foreign to his environment?
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Post by The Merc on Apr 5, 2008 20:41:55 GMT -5
I already explained that. *smacks Dane with a briefcase*
The nanites change their fucking physical structure severely. I'd go as far as to say molecular structure but I don't know exact what it is the nanites do. However it changes the body enough so that they're no longer human.
It's like the Lizardmen Theory. A Lizardman comes along and eats your body. It then wears your skin, looks exactly like you, acts exactly like you, but it is no longer you.
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Post by Dane on Apr 5, 2008 20:45:11 GMT -5
Okay, that doesn't really answer the question that he isn't foreign to the evironment. But what about the SDF? And with the same logic, Kojima must be an alien because she was a Gantz target. And, in the anime, since Kurono was a target, he must, by your logic, be an alien as well.
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Post by The Merc on Apr 5, 2008 20:50:10 GMT -5
Was the SDF Listed as an actual enemy? As far as I know they came in to secure an area from an enemy attacking force but weren't briefed of what was friendly and what was unfriendly.
Kojima and Kei, I must admit would be the only exceptions to being called aliens. However, if you looked at what I said. I said "enemy group" Kei and Kojima are just single targets.
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Post by Dane on Apr 5, 2008 21:09:50 GMT -5
Don't go splitting hairs by specifying only groups of enemies that's just stupid. That would mean that like, a green onion alien standing in the middle of the road by itself wouldn't be considered an alien because it's not part of a group. And really, Kei and Tae are in a group. Humans. Or Japanese people to get more specific. And as far as the SDF goes, I'd say that anybody trying to kill me regardless of whether they've been given information on friends and foes is an enemy. Plus, you used the phrase 'listed as an enemy.' what list do you mean exactly?
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Post by The Merc on Apr 5, 2008 21:33:23 GMT -5
A list you so pointedly decided to bring into this argument. Gantz Targets. Enemies of Gantz. Gantz never said "Go out and kill the SDF", instead the SDF went "These guys are strange, so they must be working with the enemy". Those two things are very different.
But what I'm getting at is this: Anyone with vampire nanites, is considered an alien because the nanites change their hosts base structure so severely that they can't actually be considered human anymore.
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Post by Dane on Apr 5, 2008 22:12:37 GMT -5
Gantz also never said to kill the vampires. Or that the vampires were enemies, so in your terms, they still aren't aliens. Besides, how does a human just become an alien? While in some cases alien means a foreigner, in Gantz it means beings from outer space, so don't bring the other definition up as it has nothing to do with Gantz. Gantz makes people kill aliens or people that could jeopordize the secrecy of the hunts. Why was the idea that the vampires are aliens even concieved anyway. the entire idea is just stupid. The vampires are altered humans. Like, in the future, if human evolution gets us to the point where we have like, gills or an extra arm or whatever, we're still human, we've just changed. The vampires are human, they're just a different type in which outside forces have caused them to be what they are. In this case, the nano-machines. Like, in Metal Gear Solid, most of the people in it have nano-machines in their bodies, but they're still humans. When a person loses a limb and they get a prosthetic limb that can actually move, that doesn't make them a non-human because they're different from other humans, they're just different.
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Post by jjrev609 on Apr 5, 2008 22:33:26 GMT -5
Gantz also never said to kill the vampires. Or that the vampires were enemies, so in your terms, they still aren't aliens. Besides, how does a human just become an alien? While in some cases alien means a foreigner, in Gantz it means beings from outer space, so don't bring the other definition up as it has nothing to do with Gantz. Gantz makes people kill aliens or people that could jeopordize the secrecy of the hunts. Why was the idea that the vampires are aliens even concieved anyway. the entire idea is just stupid. The vampires are altered humans. Like, in the future, if human evolution gets us to the point where we have like, gills or an extra arm or whatever, we're still human, we've just changed. The vampires are human, they're just a different type in which outside forces have caused them to be what they are. In this case, the nano-machines. Like, in Metal Gear Solid, most of the people in it have nano-machines in their bodies, but they're still humans. When a person loses a limb and they get a prosthetic limb that can actually move, that doesn't make them a non-human because they're different from other humans, they're just different. Dane, do you ever read what you type out loud? Honestly man you aren't making much sense to me at all. Metal Gear Solid has NOTHING to do with Gantz, so don't use it as a scapegoat. A person getting a prosthetic limb also has no relevance to this topic imo. Vampires are still alien by Balance's definition because they have defining traits that separate them from regular humans.
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Post by The Merc on Apr 5, 2008 22:40:12 GMT -5
Furthermore, could someone direct me to where it specifically says that the aliens in Gantz come from outta space?
And Dane, if I keep arguing with you any further, the I'm just going to give myself a headache and repeat myself.
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Post by KßзŁŁ on Apr 5, 2008 23:13:40 GMT -5
It never said that the "aliens" come from outer space. Hell, gantz sends the hunters after BS targets EVERY time; the boss has never been listed until this last hunt, I think. To me, an alien in gantz is basically anything with powers beyond what a normal human being would have. I think it can list Kurono as an "alien" because
A) he has a suit and gantz weaponry B) gantz feels like it
What better way to get people to kill shit for you than to say, "This is an invading alien. It's going to kill you. Better kill it first!"? Gantz's motivations have never really been clear, besides the fact that it wants people to kill "aliens". Arguing about where they came from isn't going to help, it's just going to cause this thread to go off topic and then no real discussion about what's really important can take place. If you want to further discuss what constitutes an "alien", take it to general chat or something.
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 11:01:27 GMT -5
Alright, but I still want an answer to when Gantz specified the Vampires as enemies because that seems to be Balance's main point of contention on whether someone in Gantz is an enemy.
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Post by Defectron on Apr 6, 2008 12:46:02 GMT -5
That's only for normal projects, Gantz final wars will operate under a different set of rules when it gets set up.
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Post by KßзŁŁ on Apr 6, 2008 14:02:46 GMT -5
The vampires actively searched out hunters and started trying to kill them. They're obviously enemies, Dane; let it go.
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 14:23:02 GMT -5
And the SDF also actively tried to kill some of the hunters. Just because they weren't given orders to kill the hunters specifically, doesn't mean they're not enemies.
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Post by KßзŁŁ on Apr 6, 2008 17:14:58 GMT -5
They're civilians you dumb bastard. Civilians can attack the gantzers if they feel like it; that's not the same thing as ACTIVELY looking for hunters to slay. Get back to the subject at hand, or I'm going to start deleting your worthless off topic posts.
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Post by ®onnie ®ude on Apr 6, 2008 17:44:34 GMT -5
They're civilians you dumb bastard. Get back to the subject at hand, or I'm going to start deleting your worthless off topic posts. Goddamn...
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 18:58:14 GMT -5
They're civilians you dumb bastard. Civilians can attack the gantzers if they feel like it; that's not the same thing as ACTIVELY looking for hunters to slay. Get back to the subject at hand, or I'm going to start deleting your worthless off topic posts. 3. Every person will respect and be respected by others. Does this rule mean nothing anymore? All I'm doing is trying to get all the facts straight and I'm getting insulted by both you and Balance. Just what exactly did I do to deserve that kind of treatment? It really isn't my fault that Balance said something with holes in it and I'm just pointing it out. Plus, I still haven't had my questions answered about Gantz listing the Vampires as an enemy anyway.
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Post by jjrev609 on Apr 6, 2008 19:08:11 GMT -5
*facepalm*
When were they listed as enemies Dane, show us proof
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 19:12:13 GMT -5
*facepalm* When were they listed as enemies Dane, show us proof Exactly. And by the way, this is what I asked Balance, J...
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Post by The Merc on Apr 6, 2008 19:22:18 GMT -5
Dane, I've already said this. Just drop this and move on.
The SDF were instructed to move in and secure an area with unknown variables within it. However, they weren't told if any of these unknown variables were allied to them as well. The SDF that attacked the Hunters are simply scared cause you got a giant minotaur-spider thing attacking a giant robot, as well as really tall dog faced people. Obviously they weren't sure what the heck was going on but it looked like the safest thing to pick on was the Hunters. They did it out of fear and circumstance.
NOT because they were actively hunting the hunters.
Kbell, if Dane persists with this, let's just ignore him. Let him figure it out for himself that the SDF are a third party seperate from hunters/hunted, etc etc.
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Post by jjrev609 on Apr 6, 2008 19:22:53 GMT -5
Wait I think I've wrapped my head around this. Vampires aren't listed as enemies of Gantz, but as a possible threat. Vampires are aliens because they are different from the people Gantz brings in to be hunters but now that there are some vampires in gantz, however the question of why Gantz let the vampires stay instead of giving an order to kill them comes into question. My theory is that Gantz might have planned for vampires to show up later to bribe them with power in hopes to turn them against each other, but hey that could be a "left-field" theory. So before this gets anymore stupider i say we just say vampire's are aliens, move on to getting a template, and adjust the rules as we go.
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 19:24:55 GMT -5
Jesus, are you just gonna keep avoiding my most important question. When did Gantz specify the Vampires as aliens. I have no problem believing the SDF aren't aliens. I'm just going on what you specified as an alien which included enemies listed by Gantz, but the Vampires were never listed by the ball. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just want an answer. It's that simple. Calling me an idiot, or a dumb bastard, or ignoring me is just a stupid excuse to not answer the question which, for some reason you haven't done. It's really that simple.
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Post by ®onnie ®ude on Apr 6, 2008 19:33:53 GMT -5
Jesus, are you just gonna keep avoiding my most important question. When did Gantz specify the Vampires as aliens. I have no problem believing the SDF aren't aliens. I'm just going on what you specified as an alien which included enemies listed by Gantz, but the Vampires were never listed by the ball. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just want an answer. It's that simple. Calling me an idiot, or a dumb bastard, or ignoring me is just a stupid excuse to not answer the question which, for some reason you haven't done. It's really that simple. Dane allow me to break this shit down to you. The definition, yes Dane, the definition of an alien is what defines what is and what isn't an alien. Not Gantz. An alien is something foreign and vampires are foreign mythical creatures. Does that solve this?
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Post by Dane on Apr 6, 2008 19:37:18 GMT -5
Jesus, are you just gonna keep avoiding my most important question. When did Gantz specify the Vampires as aliens. I have no problem believing the SDF aren't aliens. I'm just going on what you specified as an alien which included enemies listed by Gantz, but the Vampires were never listed by the ball. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just want an answer. It's that simple. Calling me an idiot, or a dumb bastard, or ignoring me is just a stupid excuse to not answer the question which, for some reason you haven't done. It's really that simple. Dane allow me to break this shit down to you. The definition, yes Dane, the definition of an alien is what defines what is and what isn't an alien. Not Gantz. An alien is something foreign and vampires are foreign mythical creatures. Does that solve this? No it doesn't. I agree with your definition and respect you a great deal, but all I want is Balance to explain his definition of an alien. I am perfectly willing to accept that the vampire are aliens, I just want to know why Balance said that they were listed as enemies by Gantz. A clear explanation. That is all I want, then all this foolishness can end.
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